tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2692345008570298281.post2189532362780679451..comments2023-11-05T02:39:08.215-07:00Comments on Godless at BYU: Apologies and Replies on Charity and Eastern Ethicsj-doghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12418860641735535641noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2692345008570298281.post-14372479112379841832010-11-04T21:16:02.366-06:002010-11-04T21:16:02.366-06:00It would help me if you could provide an example o...It would help me if you could provide an example of where Christian morality is a step up from Judaism. I've heard that said before and frankly I have no idea what people are talking about when they say it.Demosthenesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2692345008570298281.post-78184229013296592972010-11-04T17:59:12.844-06:002010-11-04T17:59:12.844-06:00An addendum as well - when I say to take a step up...An addendum as well - when I say to take a step up I mean what I mean. You acknowledge Christianity inheriting views from Judaism and I still think at their heart (which is NOT fundamentalism which is a recent thing in history) that they are decent. Judaism is okay, Christianity a step up, and I want another step up, just another. Something secular. But, like I've said before, I agree with Dennett that I have no idea what that would be, or if we could even do that in our lifetimes.j-doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12418860641735535641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2692345008570298281.post-17394751859037542492010-11-04T16:59:57.578-06:002010-11-04T16:59:57.578-06:00I don't treat Hinduism because I know very lit...I don't treat Hinduism because I know very little on it. Most of my reading into eastern thought generally is just that, I know little of Buddhism as a religion, except you are correct in saying that Nirvana is 'god-like,' though they wouldn't phrase it that way. The Dalai Lama states that there are possibly infinite Buddhas all over the cosmos, if there are infinite universes. After talking some more about the question with the 'source' I slightly misread it, but that's fine.<br /><br />Oh no, like I said, lot's of eastern thought, ethics, and religions, work but they are not all that good. I didn't touch on Hinduism but I know some about the culture, mainly through fictional works written by Indians, and snipits of documentaries, and I think the caste system is barbaric. <br /><br />I haven't read Germs Guns and Steel but I'm pretty sure Diamond put across that because of natural resources and technology Europe rose up and went around, but it had nothing to do with smartness, mainly timing and examples like massive coal deposits right under London. I won't go against Rosen's views and I'm sure that if I read the book in the near future I'll agree with most he has to say. <br /><br />When I state 'evolution of morality' I mainly mean that as a species we do something that isn't exactly right, over and over, maybe let up for a bit, go back to it, and then eventually begin to really move on. I would think this would take a while to do, but with the advent of language we can move along much more quickly, more quickly than we learn from past mistakes. Evolution in morality to me isn't brain matter changing through reproduction, but a nurture effect from the world that we pass on to next generations generally through example and story. That may help my view to be more clear. It's my understanding that the human brain has basically been the same for over the last 100,000 years.<br /><br />I admit that I could be wrong about sociopaths, I mainly go off things I learned 5-9 years ago which could have been expounded upon. But it was my understanding that there was no correlation with family life to sociopaths, some come from loving homes, rich homes, abusive homes, etc.... And most of the studies I remember looking at were studying the sociopaths homelives because they usually start acting like sociopaths from the earliest years, which many act the same (very mature manipulation, abusive, abuse animals, abnormal amount of lying, etc....). It was my understanding that sociopaths are basically born that way and nurture can have an affect, but sometimes doesn't. <br /><br />I may need to read Brog's book to understand where you are coming from. I've admitted that Judeo-Christian ethics are key, but I never like putting all my eggs in one basket ... er, shopping bag to be more modern.j-doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12418860641735535641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2692345008570298281.post-88302394061309716252010-11-04T16:06:49.904-06:002010-11-04T16:06:49.904-06:00First note: The Judeo-Christian tradition does not...First note: The Judeo-Christian tradition does not have an embodied God. Mormonism does, and in that sense it is outside of the Judeo-Christian theological tradition. Buddhism does not have a creator God, although they do believe in apotheosis (becoming a god) when one reaches Nirvana. There is also the concept of a Bodhisattva, where one chooses to stay in mortality and be an example to others rather than leaving the cycle of reincarnation and becoming deified. I think the statues of Buddha and Hindu gods and goddesses indicate that a tangible expression of a physical deity did in fact catch on in some Eastern religions. <br /><br />Regarding ethics, I don't think any of us would approve of the treatment of women in Buddhist thought, of foreigners in Shintoism, or of the Untouchables in Hinduism. As to cultural and technological development, the west won that one for one simple reason: Intellectual property protections under the patent system, derived from British common law tradition. Until the working class could profit from invention, there was no incentive to invest scarce resources in research and development except for the wealthy elite. The best treatment of this issue I have read is William Rosen's "The Most Powerful Idea in the World". Fantastic read. <br /><br />You are also factually mistaken about the genetics of sociopaths and the evolution of morality. Michael Stone's "The Anatomy of Evil" documents neurologic differences between those on death row and the rest of us, but there is no genetic link. The anatomic differences are all a result of nurture, not nature. The driving idea behind Judaism, which Christianity inherited, is that all of humanity is of equal value. Western culture is a blend of Athens and Jerusalem, and classical philosophy certainly did not hold any notions of universal human equality. The best treatment I have seen to date of the ethical contributions of Judeo-Christian thought to Western civilization is David Brog's "In Defense of Faith". Clearly reasoned, well written, lots of examples, and, quite frankly, irrefutable.Demosthenesnoreply@blogger.com